Irish Eyes - Vol 1

Welcome to the first addition of Irish Eyes 18 May 2007

The Irish Type III Website was set up in December 2006 and in five months, the website had received 1,300 hits.
Over 190 records of Irish Type III cluster members have been gathered in that time.

I decided that perhaps I should try and communicate with members of the cluster and inform you of developments in testing, results and conclusions as time goes by.

DNA Marker Conversion

Ysearch has been set up by Family Tree DNA to allow people who tested with them, or with other labs, to add their records to a database that all could search for matches. Ysearch is, however, not under complete control of FTDNA.  All the markers that form the base 67 markers, when tested at FTDNA, are entered just as they are reported to you.  Other labs were testing additional markers and it is this area that the problems arose.

Different labs have different methods of presenting their data and DNA Heritage and Relative Genetics were testing markers, at that time, that were not being tested at FTDNA so Ysearch uses DNA Heritage nomenclature for those markers.  Initially there was no agreed method of reporting several of these markers, although now NIST and ISFG have published standards.  FTDNA and Sorenson try to work to these standards but Ysearch has yet to adopt them.  Imagine the confusion if some results were entered in one form and others in another.  To avoid this please ensure you follow these directions when entering markers.

DYS463 consists of 3 subgroups (AAAGG)7 (AAGGG)16 (AAGGA)2 = 25  It was believed that no variation occurred in the last two sequences of (AAGGA) throughout all the species.  These last two sequences were not reported by DNAHeritage/Relative Genetics and DYS463 is reported as 23 by these laboratories.  This is the value that Ysearch expects to see for our cluster.  It has now been found that the Chimpanzee has only one repeat and so this part of the marker is important and this is the reason why NIST and so FTDNA and Sorenson are reporting 25 at this marker.
Action:- If tested at FTDNA or if gathering the result from Sorenson in FTDNA format, subtract 2 before entering in Ysearch.

DYS452 is another marker that requires conversion.  The NIST standard reports (TATAC)2 (TGTAC)2 (TATAC)11 (CATAC)1 (TATAC)1 (CATAC)1 (TATAC)3 (CATAC)2 (TATAC)3 (CATAC)1 (TATAC)3 as 30.  DNA Heritage/Relative Genetics only report the section highlighted in red, and so their figure is 19 less than the NIST standard.  At present the lower figure is what Ysearch is expecting.
Action:- If you are testing with FTDNA and receive a figure of say 30 at this marker, subtract 19 and enter 11 in Ysearch.

Y-GATA-H4 comprises (TAGA)12 however the last 'A' in the last repeat is part of the 'primer' and so DNA Heritage did not count this last repeat.  The smaller figure is what Ysearch is expecting.
Action:- If tested at FTDNA you are required to subtract 1 before entering in Ysearch.

For more details on the makeup of each marker see http://www.smgf.org/ychromosome/marker_details.jspx

Other Matters

Many participants have ordered additional markers and you may note that I have extended the columns in the 'Results' page to incorporate all markers that Ysearch allow you to report.
One participant that had a GD of 12 from modal at 25 markers has extended to 67 markers with his GD increasing to 24. It is felt he no longer belongs to the cluster, He is testing DYS463 to be sure, but also his DYS492=13 which is indicative of SNP S21 being positive, a member of the R1b1c9 clade.

Some may be aware there has been a DYS463 value of 19 reported at Sorenson for one O'Brien member.  As his brother has a figure of 23, we have contacted Sorenson requesting they check for a possible testing/reporting error.  45 members have now tested at DYS463 and ALL except this one have shown a figure of 23.  A four-step mutation between siblings at such a slow marker is most unusual.

John Bryant is continuing his work in looking at possible connections between Bryant, O'Brien, Hogan and West in Virginia from around 1800.

If any members have comments, suggestions or an article that you would like to write for Irish Eyes please drop me a line .... warning, this flyer may not be too regular !!!