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Irish Eyes - Vol 16

Welcome to this addition of Irish Eyes, 09 April 2011, I hope you enjoy reading it.

This email Irish Eyes has been sent to you as you are a member of the R1b DNA cluster called "Irish Type III".
If you do not wish to receive any further bulletins, please and I will remove you from the distribution list.
Our website at www.irishtype3dna.org/ continues to attract visitors, have another look if you haven't visited for a while as I am sure you will find something more of interest to you.

617 Members

It is over 9 months since the last Irish Eyes and I am pleased to be able to report that we now have 617 members in the cluster, and still getting larger. DNA testing continues to attract more people interested in their Genealogy research.
Welcome to the new members, many of whom tested at Ancestry.com, that are receiving this flyer for the first time. (As I have warned before it may not be too regular!)

Where did I find our Irish Type III members?

There are various places that can be searched for STR Haplotypes that match the Irish Type III signature. Many people who have tested at FTDNA, DNA Heritage, Ancestry and Sorenson have added their results to the Ysearch database and they appear in the Ysearch total rather than the lab they tested with. It is these results that can be downloaded from the website's results page.
I will not publish your results if they have not been added to the public database. I urge those from Ancestry and FTDNA that have not yet set up a Ysearch ID to do so as they are then able to compare and seek matches with men who have tested at all laboratories.

Email Addresses

If you have recently changed your email address, please let me know so you can continue to receive your copy of Irish Eyes.

Anonymous at Ancestry?

I still find it hard to understand why anyone would go to the bother and cost of testing at Ancestry and still wish to remain anonymous. How can they expect to find matches and further their genealogy? If you know of any Irish Type III people, please ask they to add their names and contact me. Men identified so far are:-

Update your Ysearch, DYS463

Back in March 2010, Ysearch (managed by FTDNA) updated their nomenclature for two markers, DYS452 and DYS463. FTDNA went through the database, and as the change required for DYS452 was large, plus 19 points, they could easily see and change those records that had been entered in the lower range to the higher, eg a value of DYS452 = 11 was changed to DYS452 = 30. If the value was in the range DYS452 = 25 to 35, no change was made.

Adjusting DYS463 was harder as the adjustment was only plus 2 points, and errors could creep in if they made a wholesale adjustment. They elected to delete ALL DYS463 values. Then, for those that had made the automatic transfer from their FTDNA account, the FTDNA value was transferred across. HOWEVER, if you tested at another lab, or transferred your FTDNA results manually to Ysearch, your DYS463 value will be blank. DYS463 is not part of FTDNA 67 marker test and had to be ordered as an advanced test, but if you have had this marker tested, please check your Ysearch record and manually enter the correct figure which normally is DYS463 = 25 for our cluster. If you find this confusing please contact me and I will guide you through the updating of this record.

Ysearch IDs

If you haven't already done so, please set up a Ysearch ID at www.ysearch.org.

Setting up a Ysearch ID allows others to quickly check for matches in the largest database available to everyone. As you have then published your results publicly, I am able to include them in the results page of the 'Irish Type III' website. I will not post them on the website unless you have a Ysearch record as I will always respect your right to privacy.

We all will, however, get the greatest gains by being prepared to share our information and hence get more and better matches to one another. Those with 67 markers have the added benefit of being included in the phylogram for our cluster which allows those members to see their nearest genetic relations.

If you do elect to set up a Ysearch ID, be aware that some markers, depending on where you have tested, need conversion as Ysearch reports them differently. Check on our Conversion Page,

For FTDNA testees, you can transfer your results automatically and the conversions are done for you. Here is FTDNA FAQ on transfer:-

You can upload your Y-DNA results to Ysearch using a link provided in the Y-DNA Matches section of your personal page.
This link is located just above your list of matches and says "Click here to upload to Ysearch.org."
Using this link will automatically fill in your Y-DNA results in the "Create a New User page on Ysearch."
Fill in the remaining information that you know and click "Save Information to create your Ysearch account."

Then let me know your Ysearch ID info (at) irishtype3dna (dot) org and I will include your results on the Results page.

FTDNA Matches .. but don't know of Irish Type III

When checking FTDNA matches, I have found many men that are either an exact match to, or a GD=1, or 2, from our modal at 25 markers. I have tried to contact each of them via the email address that FTDNA provides, but I am only getting a 50% response. If you know of, or are in contact with any of the following men, I would love to make contact with them as I am sure they are Irish Type III. None of these men have a Ysearch ID.

David George Beedy Robert Lee Bryant Jr. Jess Caine Jr.
Johnny Casey James Paul Collins David Curry
Paul Byron Davis Marshall V Dickson David Micah Ditty
Donald Eldridge Downey Michael Fitzgerald John Paul Flanagan
Timothy Lloyd Hogan Wendell Ray Hogan William Odessa Holloway
William Edward Howden Charles Isaacson Michael J Kane
Martin Vincent Keane Michael John Kirby Daniel Joseph Lynch
David Roy Malcolm Frank Ebaugh Mason Larry David McCraw
Albert McDaniel James Joseph McDonald Charles McReynolds
Ethan Taylor Medola Gary Noland John Edward O'Brien
Damien O'Donaghue III Kevin Patterson O'Mara Andrew James O'Neill
George William Pearson III Michael Brian Power Danny Ray Reeves
Robert Duane Renslow Jr. George L. Roach Herschel Robert Roach Jr.
Raymond Michael Savage Morris D Shannon Jr. James Dominick Shannon
Ross Sheil Giles Bernard Slattery Howard P Smith
Robert A. Smith William Arthur Sprague Ralph Durwood Thomas
V. John Wilder

FTDNA Tests available

Family Tree DNA have recently accounted two new tests.

Upgrade to 111 markers

Many folks have already tested past 67 markers to 96 in some cases. This extends your possible markers by a further 15 that have not been available before and this special introductory price is very good, even for those of us that have already tested many of these markers. As an introductory offer, the price for this upgrade will rise after the initial period. The possible benefits are outlined in the the FTDNA announcement which is as follows :-

We are excited to announce the launch of our new Y-DNA111 test!

This test includes a panel of 111 Y chromosome Short Tandem Repeat (STR) markers.* With 44 additional markers, Y-DNA111 is the highest resolution Y-DNA test offered by any company in the world.

The Y-DNA111 test is recommended for customers who already have close matches at the 67 marker level and are looking to tighten the calculation for the time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA).** Due to the specialized nature of this test and in order to evaluate the potential benefit of this type of upgrade, we ask that customers with Y-DNA12, 25, or 37 results upgrade to 67 markers first before considering the 111 marker test.

With that in mind, this new test is now available as an upgrade for customers with existing Y-DNA67 results and also as a standalone test for individuals looking to prove a close relationship on the direct paternal line:

View our FAQ section to learn more about this new test. FAQ 570

Thank you,
Family Tree DNA

*This figure is based on the typical number of allele values we see for multi-copy markers. The number of allele values we observe and report for these markers may vary.
**Please note, both test-takers must have the 111 marker test to be compared at this level.

Universal SNP test

While this test will be useful to many who are for instance L21+, Irish Type III need only test L266 which is much cheaper to order ... see below. Here is the FTDNA announcement.

Launched on March 4, 2011 – Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree Update

We are excited to announce that we have updated our Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree to reflect new haplogroup sub-branches! Family Tree DNA, in partnership with the YCC, periodically reviews known SNPs in order to evaluate those that meet the requirements to be added to the haplotree. The SNPs that passed this review are now included in the haplotree and considered for deep clade testing.

Along with this update to the tree, we have implemented some changes in the ordering process for deep clade and SNP testing:

We now offer a universal deep clade test for $89. This will identify a customer’s terminal SNP for any haplogroup. If a customer has pending results for a deep clade test, they will automatically be tested according to the new tree.
If a customer has never ordered a deep clade test, they will have the option either to order the universal deep clade for $89 or order individual SNPs from the tree.

Follow these instructions for the new SNP ordering system if you already have results for the first 12 markers of a Y-DNA test–

Log in to your “My FTDNA” page and click the ‘Haplotree’ button.
If you see the words “You Are Eligible For An Upgrade” then click the “Continue for more information” button which will take you to an order page for the Deep Clade test.
Or, if you already have Deep Clade results and do not see the “You Are Eligible For An Upgrade” button, you can click “Continue to Choose SNPs.”
If you do not have any SNPs available to order, an alert box will appear letting you know “You currently have no SNPs available to order.”

L226 our defining SNP

L226 is the defining SNP for our Irish Type III cluster and as such I urge you all to test L226 to absolutely confirm your membership of the Irish Type III cluster.

To order L226, from your FTDNA Home Page, click on "My Account" / Order Tests and Upgrades. Then click on "Order Advanced SNP Test". On the chart displayed, scroll down and click on L226 that appears in Orange.
L226 will appear in the Order box below the chart. Click "Continue Order".
The Price is quoted as $29.00 and on the line above it says "There is a one-time fee of $9.50 US to transfer your DNA from the Arizona lab to the Houston lab where all advanced testing is done." This only applies the first time you order an advanced test.

Once you order L226, please also join the R-L226 project. Go to the R-L226 Project Page, and I will put you in the Pending Group until your result comes in.

In the R-L226 project there is now a listing of all SNPs that each person has tested for. FTDNA did have a problem that it only recorded the SNPs tested through standard SNP testing and NOT WTY testing. This left Kevin O'Brien (our WTY participant, in whom the L226 SNP was found,) with M269 as his last tested SNP. After appealing to FTDNA, they are adding L226 to Kevin's record in the R-L226 project.


ISOGG has set up a Wiki directed to Genetic Genealogy. Welcome Page
This is a great resource to learn about all facets of genetics. A simple wiki page has been written describing our Irish Type III cluster but more detailed information is to be found on our webpages.

1,000 Year Anniversary of Battle of Clontarf

April 2014 marks the 1,000 year anniversary of the Battle of Clontarf where our forebear, King Brian Ború defeated the Vikings at Clontarf, Dublin, ridding Ireland of their raids and pillaging. King Brian Ború was killed as the battle ended. The Irish Government is planning large celebrations to mark the occasion, and as Irish Type III we are of Brian Ború's patrilineal line and so many will be marking Dublin, Ireland in our diaries as the place to be in April 2014.
I will keep you informed as more is learnt of the Irish Government's plans.

Reprinting of FTDNA Certificates

FTDNA are no longer sending out certificates showing your Y-DNA or mtDNA results. Instead they have added a link in the Y-DNA and mtDNA sections where you can print your own certificates.

Easier Printing from our Website

I am still learning about websites and what you can do with them. I have added code that lets you print out any page more easily than before. A printout now omits the two sidebars and spans the main content across the page. Hopefully you will find this useful.

Are you "Tall in the Saddle?"

My father was shorter than my mother when standing, but taller when both were sitting - long in the body and shorter in the leg. I was reminded of this when a new cluster member, told me of his family story.

"Family lore that says our oldest ancestor was on the run and arrived in South Kerry riding a white horse. It was said that he was most noticeable because he was "tall on horse back". This is a family trait of having a long back and relatively short legs. We do know that we are a different breed to many of the other Kerry families of our name".

It made me wonder how common this might be in the Irish Type III cluster. Have any other cluster members noted a long back and shorter legs?

This email, Irish Eyes, has been sent to you as you are a member of the R1b DNA cluster called "Irish Type III".
If you do not wish to receive any further bulletins, please and I will remove you from the distribution list.

Slainte, Dennis Wright