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Irish Eyes - Vol 6

Welcome to this addition of Irish Eyes, 5 November 2007, I hope you enjoy reading it.

The Irish Type III Website was set up in December 2006 and in eleven months, the website has received 2,500 hits.

Over 220 records of Irish Type III cluster members have been gathered in that time. You are receiving this email as you are a member of this cluster.

Do you have a Ysearch ID?

Several members have recently set up a Ysearch ID and their records have now been posted to the website. Could I ask all members of this cluster, who haven't already done so, to set up a record at Ysearch. To upload to Ysearch:-

It really is that simple ... let me know what Ysearch ID you are given and I can then display your results.

If you have tested through DNA Heritage, Relative Genetics or Oxford, go to http://www.ysearch.org/add_start.asp?uid= to create your user ID and automatically upload all your results from your testing lab.

You can enter the markers manually from this page but it is easier to do it automatically.

Setting up a Ysearch ID allows others to quickly check for matches in the largest database available to everyone with results from people who have tested at other laboratories as well as FTDNA. As you have then published your results publicly, I am able to include them in the results page of the 'Irish Type III' website. I will not post them on the website unless you have a Ysearch record as I will always respect your right to privacy. We will, however, get the greatest gains by being prepared to share our information and hence get more and better matches to one another.

Adjusting markers for Ysearch

UPDATE 01 March 2010

As from 01 March 2010, ySearch has fallen into line with NIST standards. ySearch is now expecting the higher values for DYS452 and DYS463. If you received your results from FTDNA, Ancestry or Genebase, these two markers need NO conversion

While the 25, 37 and 67 markers from FTDNA (Family Tree DNA) can be transferred with no adjustment, if you have some of the advanced markers tested, you will need to manually adjust your values for the following markers to match the nomenclature used by Ysearch as FTDNA and Ysearch use different nomenclature on a couple of markers.

See http://www.ysearch.org/conversion_page.asp

Searching for SNPs

Haplogroups such as R1b1c7 and R1b1c9a are defined by a single nucleotide polymorphorism (SNP), a change in one value from say an 'A' to 'T'. While it is obvious that our STR markers show we have a distinct cluster of haplotypes, presently there is no SNP to define this as a haplogroup.

Thomas Krahn of FTDNA has at a recent conference proposed a search for more SNPs. He is calling this search "Walk on Y" and his presentation can be seen at:-


What Dr. Krahn is suggesting is a kind of binary search. Take a particular haplogroup that currently has no SNPs that subclassify it; let's say, R1b1c*. Divide that group into two STR-clustered camps that are roughly equal in sample population; let's call them R1b1c*-Isles and R1b1c*-Continental or R1b1c*-Irish Type III. Pick a near-modal sample of each. Now scan a 50kb segment of the Y chromosome on each of those two chosen samples, and look for any base pairs that differ. If we have delimited our camps and chosen our samples and chromosome segment well, we should find one or more SNPs.

Everyone else in R1b1c* can then test these SNP(s) to determine which camp they truly belong to (i.e., by SNP and not just by STR clustering) and one can recursively apply the algorithm to the newly defined subgroups, and their subgroups, etc.

A variation on this approach is for a particular, well-funded cluster, such as R1b1c*-Scot, to choose a representative member of the cluster, and then a member of R1b1c* just outside the cluster. Scan a 50kb-segment of each, looking for differing base pairs. Any SNP found has a strong chance to be "the" SNP for the cluster.

This is a formalised broader approach rather than the 'ad hoc' one that several members of our cluster have recently taken to search for an SNP in the S25/DYS463 area of the Y chromosome.

There are many 50kb segments that could be tested and where an SNP may hide, and the cost of testing such a long segment has not yet been proposed. I will keep you informed on the take-up on this novel approach by other clusters in the R1b1c* community.

Surnames that are Irish Type III

I was asked what percentage of O'Briens etc were of our cluster. While not extensive, I have had a look at the surname projects of our most common names and find the following:-

Note:- Many surname projects have other surnames represented, to the percentages may be somewhat higher than stated.

# in Project
# Irish Type III

Books I Have in my Library

In Search of the Double Helix John Gribbin 1985 Corgi Books

A fascinating book that follows the progress of science from Darwin and Mendel then delves into the chemistry of DNA, amino acids and proteins and explains the workings of RNA, etc. An excellent primer for those with some science background.

In Search of Indo-Europeans J P Mallory 1989 Thames and Hudson

For those trying to understand how our language came about and its sources and influences. I found it a rather hard going discussing, as it does, all the ancient tribes of the Caucasus's, Balkans and near East.

Biology 5th Edition Neil A Campbell 1999 Benjamin Cummings

A heavy tome for those who need to know everything about the mechanics of RNA, DNA, ribosomes and so on. Excellent diagrams in this university textbook.

Seven Daughters of Eve Bryan Sykes 2001 Bantam Press

The most popular book on European ancestry revealed through mitochondrial DNA. Although seven is a gross oversimplification, the book itself does provide a good introduction for the non-scientist.

The Journey of Man Spencer Wells 2002 Penguin Books

A broad perspective on how humans that originated in Africa eventually populated the whole world. This description is presented primarily derived from the perspective of the author's Y-chromosome DNA research.

Human Instinct Robert Winston 2002 Bantam Books

Tries to show were our instincts and emotions came from and how they were designed to help us to survive in primitive times.

Adam's Curse Bryan Sykes 2003 Bantam Press

A similar book to Seven Daughters of Eve, this time directed to the male of the species. A good introduction for the non-scientist.

A Short History of Nearly Everything Bill Bryson 2003 Black Swan

This is a rough and very readable guide to science written in his quest to understand everything that has happened from the Big Bang to the rise of civilisation, and on to RNA and DNA. Packed with references to other papers.

Nature via Nurture Matt Ridley 2003 Harper Perennial

The perennial debate - I am reading this at present ... will hold my comments for the moment.

The Killers Within Shnayerson and Plotkin 2003 Time Warner Books

Discusses the rise of antibiotic resistant bugs, caused by our overuse of antibiotics by prescription and in our food. Not a good read if you are about to enter hospital where it claims you are most likely to come into contact with these superbugs!

DNA James D Watson 2003 Knopf

The definite book on the workings of the cell, by the man who discovered DNA. A good follow-on to In search of the Double Helix. Highly recommended

Face of Britain Robin McKie 2006 Simon and Schuster

A light-weight accompaniment to the TV series of the same name. Based on The People of the British Isles project, it looks at the differences between people in various parts of Britain. The team required participants to be from a rural area in the defined region, and have all 4 grandparents born there. No haplotypes here though.

The Origins of the British Stephen Oppenheimer 2006 Constable

Although controversial in spots, it provides a detailed description of his theory of the evolution of the modern human and their spread into Britain. Unfortunately, Oppenheimer uses some of his own naming conventions and they are hard to relate to the evolving standards. This is a sequel to The Real Eve and as its title suggests provides further details of the British ancestry to which so many of us relate. I really enjoyed this book.

Homo Britannicus Chris Stringer 2006 Penguin Books

This book presents the work of the Ancient Human Occupation of Britain project and looks at the evidence of occupation throughout the millennia, before and after the ice ages. It is looking at ancient peoples and not the recent (last 2000 years) waves of conquests. Again, no haplotypes here.

An Irish Hogan Hero and Legend

Len Keane has alerted me to this site http://www.david-kiely.co.uk/books/highwaymen/hogan.pdf which relates the story of Daniel Hogan, also known as "Galloping Hogan", rappare fighting against Oliver Cromwell's forces from 1650 to 1690.

Interesting Family changes

Now that we are getting results from several members in a number of families, we are starting to see 'private' STR variations from the 'Irish Type III' modal, for example:-

Bresnan390-23 439-12 448-20 456-16 576-17 CDYb-39
BryanTAGAH4-12 607-14 576-19 446-14 CDYb-37
Bryant464d-16 576-19 CDYa,b-37,39
Butler460-10 CDYb-40 444-11 481-23
Callahan458-16 TAGAH4-10 CDYb-39
Cannon439-12 458-19 464d-18 576-17 CDYa,b-35,40
Casey393-12 458-16 449-30 464b-14 460-12;13 CDYa-37 534-14 481-23
Crow(e)391-12 449-27 460-10
Hart458-16 572-10
HoganCDYa-37 481-23
Lindsay385a-10 YCAIIa-18 441-14
McCraw/McGrath390-25 442-11
McNamara90-23 458-18 TAGAH4-12 445-11 446-14

While not all members of each surname will have these changes, they are common within the surname.

If any members have comments, suggestions or an article that you would like to write for Irish Eyes please drop me a line .... warning, this flyer may not be too regular !!!

Slainte, Dennis Wright